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Old 10-23-2012, 01:39 AM   #31
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I expect that if you do not drive well at 60 ( except due to a medical problem) it is because you have never driven well)
At 72 I have a valid comercial licence that requires a medical and eye test every year,a driving test would be only an inconvenience and would prove nothing.
I would suggest that driver testing should be based on your driving record, this should include all infractions other than parking tickets.
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Old 10-23-2012, 02:06 AM   #32
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Keeping and bearing arms is a right that is in the Constitution, and you have to get a permit for that.
You need to lay off the hooka man. You don't have to get a permit to own firearms. You don't have to do anything other than answer an ad on craigs list or in the paper. Do a face to face transfer of a firearm is legal and you need no permit just cash and some one willing to sell you a gun.

Just because some stated have broken the law with illegal gun laws doesn't make driving a right man.

I have close to 4 dozen gun give or take (If the wife sees this) and I have never had to have a permit and don't have a permit for any of them.

No rights in the BOR are granted by the government. FAIL #1.

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Traveling is a right that is so fundamental to your life that they saw no need to include it in the BOR. It was known by everyone to be essential to your ability to enjoy the other rights codified in the BOR.
OK so traveling is a right fine still doesn't say anything about DRIVING a MOTOR VEHICLE. You can travel by foot, horse, cow, bicycle ect....
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Old 10-23-2012, 03:27 AM   #33
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You need to lay off the hooka man. You don't have to get a permit to own firearms. You don't have to do anything other than answer an ad on craigs list or in the paper. Do a face to face transfer of a firearm is legal and you need no permit just cash and some one willing to sell you a gun.
That depends entirely on the state in which you live. Many states require permits for private transactions of pistols and some other firearms.

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Just because some stated have broken the law with illegal gun laws doesn't make driving a right man.
Traveling on the roadways in an automobile is a right. That has been established through the courts already. You just refuse to see it.

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No rights in the BOR are granted by the government. FAIL #1.
I never said that any rights are granted by the government. I said codified in law. There is a big difference.



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OK so traveling is a right fine still doesn't say anything about DRIVING a MOTOR VEHICLE. You can travel by foot, horse, cow, bicycle ect....
I was waiting for you to say that. The 2A never once mentions guns. Not once. It says arms. Guns are included in that because they are the best tools to be used to defend against an oppressive government.

The founders left the language loose because they knew that things would advance as time went on. Of course they never said that you have a right to travel in a car when they wrote the Constitution, because cars did not exist.

But now, as they do, and as you agree that traveling is a right, then you must also agree that traveling in a vehicle is a right because it is the best way to exercise this right for the purpose of everyday travel.
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:06 AM   #34
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right or privilage to drive. well IMO, whether you are young or old, if you drive in an unsafe manner due to getting old and not seeing as well, or young and texting and driving or just middle aged and just plain not paying attention to your driving, and you are creating an unsafe condition for other drivers on th road, then you need to be removed. unsafe is unsafe, period. it has nothing to do with age, gender or anything else. driving a 2 ton hunk of metal up and down the road safely requires one to pay their full attention and to drive in a safe and courteous manner. old age, drunken driving, texting and whatever cause you not to have your full attention to your driving and causes a person to drive in an unsafe manner, IMO is grounds to be removed from a vehicle and to have your license suspended.

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Old 10-23-2012, 04:43 AM   #35
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That I can agree with (kinda). And if it is done through the 5A with due process then I agree. But a cop can not just (morally or truly legally) pull you over and snatch you up.

Creating a dangerous condition is not the same as causing damage. But there is precedence in the case law that Ive posted for things like this.

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Old 10-23-2012, 05:53 AM   #36
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I have two teenage boys, both of whom have been driving cars/trucks on private land since they were 9 or 10 years old. I started driving at 8 years old, as did my wife (or thereabouts). We are all excellent drivers. I have a problem with laws that restrict driving privileges for young drivers when there is a near vacuum of proper driving instruction out there. Just learning how to do the motions necessary to move a vehicle down the road is not "learning how to drive". I think that the restrictions should be lifted on young drivers while at the same time raising the requirements in driving instruction in order to get a license in the first place, and this would apply no matter what age one is when they get their first license, be it 16 or 61.

At the other end of life, older drivers are better drivers, by and large, because of their experience. When their physical and mental abilities start to decline then there should be testing to determine when that is happening. It is a different age for everyone, and I think it is probably after 70 or even 75 rather than 60. Most of the elderly people I know would be willing to take the additional testing to determine their abilities in driving, as almost nobody really wants to hurt anyone. I have had to deal with several elderly people who were at the end of their safe driving years, and fortunately (for everybody else on the roads) they saw the wisdom of voluntarily giving up their driving rights/privileges (I'm not going to argue that point as I feel it is a pointless argument).

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Old 10-23-2012, 06:02 AM   #37
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if we put driving into the context, that it is a right and not a privilage, then it bears the same responsibility as owning a firearm and needs to be done safely. when a person drives in an unsafe manner, due to drinking, texting or is unable to operate a vehicle because they have failing eyesight, slower reflexes or any other problems that hinder safe operation of a vehicle, they need to be removed from the roadways. if a person can't operate a motor vehicle in a safe manner, regardless of age or gender, they should not be allowed to drive. my beef is with unsafe drivers, period.

do i oppose racing? no, as long as you do it on a racetrack. do i oppose drinking alcoholic beverages? no, as long as you don't drive and have a designated driver if if you drink. do i oppose using a cell phone or texting? no, but pull over or get a handsfree device. do i oppose the elderly driving? not as long as they can still do it safely.

maybe everyone, regardless of age or gender should take a refressher course every so many years. maybe having to retest for a drivers license upon condition of renewal. maybe testing the elderly citizens eyesight upon condition of renewal. many ways to either make drivers more safe or maybe having them removed from the streets to make it safer for everyone.

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Old 10-23-2012, 06:06 AM   #38
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And?

I don't disagree with anything you have said. Unless you are saying that you should be forced to show proficiency to exercise your rights.

I have long been an advocate of incentive based training.

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Old 10-23-2012, 06:15 AM   #39
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I figure that if somebody (such as myself for example) has held a valid driver's license without any tickets or at-fault accidents (I was hit from the rear a couple of years ago by a gal passing me on the right while texting, I haven't had a moving violation for 30 years) for a number of years then retesting and or retraining is unnecessary. Unless the training is commensurate with the individuals driving skill. I would happily go to a high performance driving school for a weekend lesson (if I could afford it).

There are many people out there who drive a whole lot more than I do, like truck drivers, who have way more hours on the road than probably the rest of us combined, most of them have a clean record and much experience. I don't think it would serve any useful purpose to have them test and retrain every few years. They already have a bunch of hoops they have to jump through just to keep a commercial license.

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Old 10-23-2012, 06:21 AM   #40
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And?

I don't disagree with anything you have said. Unless you are saying that you should be forced to show proficiency to exercise your rights.

I have long been an advocate of incentive based training.
should we allow teenagers to just start driving with no training or testing just because they reach a certain age? a written exam and a driving test that you have to pass in order to recieve your drivers license is in a sense an exam of profeciency to to prove you are capable of operating a motor vehicle safely. just as i also have to prove my ability to see when i have my eyesight tested when i renew my drivers license.

if someone were incapable of being able to operate a vehicle safely, would you want that person on the road with you? i know i don't want them there. the reasons why they are incapable of doing so are of no importance to me, just that they shouldn't be allowed to drive.
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