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Old 11-24-2012, 02:08 PM   #51
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A fist fight is not a reason to pull a piece. I've run into people whom I've wanted to beat the tar out of but never considered pulling my pistol.
The rest of your post aside, I have a personal belief about fighting. Two men settling their differences, when neither have the intention of killing the other, maybe out back behind the barn, or in the bar parking lot, is one thing.

The guy in question was attacked in a public setting. Granted it was only one punch to the face, but who are any of us to say that it wouldn't have gone any further?

And, for the record, I've been in several fights without pulling my gun, and have defended myself in a possible life or death situation without pulling my gun. Two in particular...

I pulled a guy out of my truck while he was trying to steal it, and dumped him on the ground. I was willing to walk away without even pressing charges or calling the cops, but he decided to escalate the situation and attacked me. So I beat him with a stick until he was no longer willing to fight (I didn't even knock him unconscious. I stopped when he threw his hands up after about 5-7 whacks). In that situation, I had just left college campus and wasn't armed because of state laws. I felt I would have been justified in drawing at the moment, but hindsight is 20/20, and hindsight only comes along after the fact. Hindsight tells me I should have let him take the truck, call the insurance company, the cops (maybe not necessarily in that order), and pray the cops don't find the truck, because it was a piece of junk and the insurance would have paid me more than it was personally worth to me.

In the other situation, I was sitting in a family dollar parking lot, in a newer and nicer truck, looking up directions on my phone and smoking a cigarette, when a man reached through my open window and put a knife to my throat, told me to get out. My Smith and Wesson model 65 was right beside me, jammed between the seat cushions, but without even thinking of going for it, I stuck that lit smoke right in his eye and heard it hiss nice and loud before throwing the truck in gear and stomping the gas. I feel I would have been justified in drawing and killing him, even in hindsight.

There have been several other situations where I've settled differences with a simple bout of fisticuffs with no intention of killing anyone. But, when one is attacked, we can pick apart their actions all day long. What matters, many times, is whether they felt they were in immediate danger, at that moment, of death or serious bodily harm. And unfortunately, WE can't control other's thoughts or emotions. Believe me, if I could, no child of mine would be so terrified that they're going to be kidnapped by their mother that they can't even sleep well at night.
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Old 11-24-2012, 02:23 PM   #52
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A fist fight is not a reason to pull a piece. I've run into people whom I've wanted to beat the tar out of but never considered pulling my pistol.

Case in point, driving home one afternoon I was going down the highway in my F150, with my daytime running lights on. This idiot pulls right out in front of me, I started braking pretty had nearly locking them up but had to pass him on the shoulder to keep from hitting him. As I past him I looked over and held up my hands in disbelief. He caught up to me and started tailgating me and flipping me the bird and yelling for me to pull over. So I pulled over and jumped outta my truck and yelled at him, "You got a problem!"

He said he didn't appreciate being flipped the bird and said Fu** You! Keep in mind in never raised the middle finger to him, at least not yet. We basically yelled at each other on the side of the highway for a couple minutes with cars going by. He threatened to beat my ass at one point to which i said, "Bring it on, bitch, I will defend myself and you will not like the outcome!"

I eventually said, "Your a fu**ing idiot" and opened the door of my truck and stepped up on the running boards at that point I decided to get the last word. I gave him both birds and said FU and drove off.
Esclating the "road rage" incident, by pulling over, and inviting a fight is asking for more grief then you ever want to face. The problem is, you never know if the other party is more willing to make his decisions based on emotion then you are. Road rage incidents are better dealt with with a cell phone the the highway patrol, then a fight, or possibly a firearm.

If you ended up shooting the guy, it would be damn hard to explain to a judge why you pulled over, got out of your vehicle, inviting a further confrontation.
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Old 11-24-2012, 02:25 PM   #53
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Esclating the "road rage" incident, by pulling over, and inviting a fight is asking for more grief then you ever want to face. The problem is, you never know if the other party is more willing to make his decisions based on emotion then you are. Road rage incidents are better dealt with with a cell phone the the highway patrol, then a fight, or possibly a firearm.

If you ended up shooting the guy, it would be damn hard to explain to a judge why you pulled over, got out of your vehicle, inviting a further confrontation.
True but really didn't want him following me home.
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Old 11-24-2012, 02:27 PM   #54
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Esclating the "road rage" incident, by pulling over, and inviting a fight is asking for more grief then you ever want to face. The problem is, you never know if the other party is more willing to make his decisions based on emotion then you are. Road rage incidents are better dealt with with a cell phone the the highway patrol, then a fight, or possibly a firearm.

If you ended up shooting the guy, it would be damn hard to explain to a judge why you pulled over, got out of your vehicle, inviting a further confrontation.


^^^ I hope I have more opportunities to agree with you.
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Old 11-24-2012, 02:32 PM   #55
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True but really didn't want him following me home.
That is when the cell phone is more effective then the firearm. You could have had the great satisfaction of seeing the idiot hauled off in cuffs. A simple phone call to the police, would have established the guy as an agressor and you as a victim. If the other party continued to escalate the situation, you would have been in a far better position to legally defend yourself.
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Old 11-24-2012, 02:36 PM   #56
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That is when the cell phone is more effective then the firearm. You could have had the great satisfaction of seeing the idiot hauled off in cuffs. A simple phone call to the police, would have established the guy as an agressor and you as a victim. If the other party continued to escalate the situation, you would have been in a far better position to legally defend yourself.
I agree I could've done that in a different way but I don't really have any regrets cause I spoke my mind and stood up for myself. Plus our sheriffs dept isn't exactly known for thier quick response time.

Just as I could've used my phone the guy in Sears could've used his, he had more witnesses on his behalf.
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Old 11-24-2012, 02:55 PM   #57
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well i have no Black Friday mayhem stories, because i never left the house!
I didn't leave my house, either. In fact, I barely left my recliner. I felt a little guilty.

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Probably a large portion of the welfare recipients too. Did you know 80% Of Walmart employees are on welfare of some sort?
That's because WalMart rarely has full time positions. So the vast majority of those employees are working part time for probably minimum wage and not much more. It's called "The Working Poor". Even working full time at minimum wage more often than not can't make ends meet for someone living on their own.
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Old 11-24-2012, 02:58 PM   #58
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I didn't leave my house, either. In fact, I barely left my recliner. I felt a little guilty.



That's because WalMart rarely has full time positions. So the vast majority of those employees are working part time for probably minimum wage and not much more. It's called "The Working Poor". Even working full time at minimum wage more often than not can't make ends meet for someone living on their own.
i have no guilt or shame for not leaving the house nor the recliner!

we only have a WalMart in our town that is of any consequence as far as Black Friday sales. i have always bought many of the same items on sale a month or so later at the same price with not having to deal with the idiots!
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Old 11-24-2012, 03:07 PM   #59
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That's because WalMart rarely has full time positions. So the vast majority of those employees are working part time for probably minimum wage and not much more. It's called "The Working Poor". Even working full time at minimum wage more often than not can't make ends meet for someone living on their own.
Oh that's nothing I don't already know. I'm working full time and overtime (this week alone, or the week of 11/15-11/21, I have 56 hours regular time and 22 of overtime), and I can barely make ends meet. I'm also making more than minimum wage. Barely.
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Old 11-24-2012, 03:54 PM   #60
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This guy could have been seeing stars for all anyone knows. Maybe even on the verge of blacking out, and if the punk is stupid enough to walk up to a complete strange and punch him in the face for no reason, who is to say he won't kick him, stab him, or what ever after the guy was down. Your self defense tactics aren't squat after your knocked out. The punk got what was coming to him, and kudos to the man who stood up for himself.
Bingo....

A shot to the face/head is deadly force. By the sound of the second guessing by some here I'd say we've got some younger fitter members who are ready to scrap rather than instantly go to the sidearm...which is fine...BUT, we have no idea the permit holders age, level of fitness or possible disability?

I am consistently seeing many of the same members here questioning or bashing an armed citizens actions based on a snippet of information an AFTER the responding LEO's found no cause to arrest them?

I have to wonder what well of omnipotent water many of them are drinking from?

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