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MobileMarine 12-05-2011 09:13 PM

American Prison
 
Lets get some thoughts on our fine prison and rehabiltation systems we have here in the good ole U S of A .
Gotta wonder what the return rate is in say ... Iran or south america , hell did anyone see the the show on NatGeo on Russias toughest prisons ?
Them guys were blindfolded when they went outside and HAD to say yes/no SIR.
No gangs , No insubordination , No talking , No tv and you know what ? The warden said they had zero complaints from the prisoners !
I think if we as americans would get the sand out of our no-no spot and grow a pair , stop worrying over what the bad guy might think of us , maybe they could be reformed ?
And for those who have gone off the deep end just execute them ... So effing what if they might feel pain while we are killing them ? Sue us ! Oh wait your dead buddy .
Whats a round of .223 going for ? 10 ft of rope ? Angry mob ? Hell Casey Anthony can save us the money of burying them too .
Lke the guy in california trying for parole after he killed 25 people back int he 70's , why is that f-er even still alive ?
I forget the country but it is somewhat lawful for the victims family to practice the whole eye for and eye saying , You killed my _____ I get to kill you . Done deal , no taxes spent .

I will try to find a link to the show about russian prisons

MobileMarine 12-05-2011 09:15 PM


fmj 12-05-2011 09:34 PM

yeah, prolly best to NOT get me started on Club Fed.

Especially coming into heating season here in the upper mid west.

I often think it might be a good way to go! Free meals i dont have to cook, free Heat, free A/C, free cable, free gym membership.

The only downside i see is it curtailing my trout fishing and deer hunting.:rolleyes:

orangello 12-05-2011 10:08 PM

I do think there are some people in prison in part because they lack the skills to make a living any way that is legal. They need some job training; at Parchman prison in MS, they teach them agriculture and welding and automotive repair (servicing the public as well as state vehicles). I have a FINE little grill from Parchman's welding shop (welds like a stack of nickles), and i have it on good authority (former inmate) that the welding shop is much preferred to the farming, MUCH.

There are some who probably can't ever be made safe to roam free, and those should, at the very least, be offered the option of a quick death rather than a long sentence that probably won't do them any good and will certainly be expensive for the taxpayers (maybe a nice headstone as an incentive?). The sexual predators should have an option for some kind of sterilization to shorten their sentence; iirc, a convict in maybe Texas actually requested something like that and got it. At some point, the populace probably needs to have a list of offenses that will actually get them put down in short order, just for their information, and to give the truly disturbed a heads-up.

Then you have the drug-related convicts, some of those are basically just in need of some vocational training and post-release monitoring to set them on the right path. Others need rehab of some sort to get them off of whatever they came in on and will most likely come BACK in on later. Then there are the non-retailing pot people; why waste my tax dollars housing them; hit them in the wallet and with regular drug-testing on a longterm basis on the outside, making room on the inside for people who might present a danger to the public.

fmj 12-05-2011 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangello (Post 644202)
I do think there are some people in prison in part because they lack the skills to make a living any way that is legal. They need some job training; at Parchman prison in MS, they teach them agriculture and welding and automotive repair (servicing the public as well as state vehicles). I have a FINE little grill from Parchman's welding shop (welds like a stack of nickles), and i have it on good authority (former inmate) that the welding shop is much preferred to the farming, MUCH.

There are some who probably can't ever be made safe to roam free, and those should, at the very least, be offered the option of a quick death rather than a long sentence that probably won't do them any good and will certainly be expensive for the taxpayers (maybe a nice headstone as an incentive?). The sexual predators should have an option for some kind of sterilization to shorten their sentence; iirc, a convict in maybe Texas actually requested something like that and got it. At some point, the populace probably needs to have a list of offenses that will actually get them put down in short order, just for their information, and to give the truly disturbed a heads-up.

Then you have the drug-related convicts, some of those are basically just in need of some vocational training and post-release monitoring to set them on the right path. Others need rehab of some sort to get them off of whatever they came in on and will most likely come BACK in on later. Then there are the non-retailing pot people; why waste my tax dollars housing them; hit them in the wallet and with regular drug-testing on a longterm basis on the outside, making room on the inside for people who might present a danger to the public.

Drug offenses (non violent/ using type) are a mental health issue and NOT a criminal issue! Waste of time and resources all the way around is the drug war. But thats a different topic for a different thread.

orangello 12-05-2011 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmj (Post 644206)
Drug offenses (non violent/ using type) are a mental health issue and NOT a criminal issue! Waste of time and resources all the way around is the drug war. But thats a different topic for a different thread.

Unfortunately, those people make up a decent percentage of U.S. prisoners. That space could be better used to prevent early-releases of people who haven't yet satisfied some prison shrinks and such.

I really wish that prisoners with mental health issues weren't released without required regular therapy/monitoring. I wouldn't just hate myself if some were only released to designated areas. Maybe they could cordon off part of Detroit for all of the people with issues requiring controlling medication, putting less of the public at risk. At least the Lions would have some hardcore fans.

MrWray 12-05-2011 11:40 PM

I worked in the state prison system for 6 years, on SRT for 3 years. Just as much criminal activity goes on inside the fence as it does on the streets.there are gangs and cliques that seperate themselves from general population and drug are still a big issue. There are school facilities where inmates can acquire their GED or take up a trade in votech. Of course its up to the individual how they use the education.some people just think prison is a big party and ive seen guys discharge and come back within 6 months. some people use their time in prison to learn from their mistakes, discharge and stay out.

MobileMarine 12-05-2011 11:54 PM

2 words '' BLACK DOLPHIN ''.

orangello 12-06-2011 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWray (Post 644287)
I worked in the state prison system for 6 years, on SRT for 3 years. Just as much criminal activity goes on inside the fence as it does on the streets.there are gangs and cliques that seperate themselves from general population and drug are still a big issue. There are school facilities where inmates can acquire their GED or take up a trade in votech. Of course its up to the individual how they use the education.some people just think prison is a big party and ive seen guys discharge and come back within 6 months. some people use their time in prison to learn from their mistakes, discharge and stay out.

Since you worked in the system, i wonder: Do you think requiring completion of educational or vocational training and/or psychotherapy sessions would reduce the rate of returns?

MrWray 12-06-2011 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangello

Since you worked in the system, i wonder: Do you think requiring completion of educational or vocational training and/or psychotherapy sessions
would reduce the rate of returns?

I think the best answer is,it depends on the individual and what their motives are. I worked in a minimum security facility,BUT 90% of the inmates are actually medium security, there is still a fair share of violent incidents that occur,and has quite a few escapes. So even though the facility is classified as minimum security,its far from docile. Its based on a level system, lvl 1 being the worst with the least priviledges and goes to lvl 4 with the most priviledges. When i was there lvl 4 inmates got to house in a seperate building that was apprx. 1/2 mile away with no fence. The vocational and educational programs were required for some inmates and of course it was easier to reach level 4 if you took them.some would do anything that they needed to do in order to reach that level, but they werent doing it for the educational value and was still doing their "dirt". The education facility had almost no security, meaning no officers were posted there on a regular basis. So it was easy for the inmates so slip out long enough to use drugs, tattoo, or fight..and this happened all the time down there. Then you have the inmates that genuinely want the education so they can do the best that they can once they discharge or parole, so they were there everyday that the doors were open "to learn". The inmates that required psyciatric help would be unpredictable, some would stay on their meds and would be fine and some would not. Even alot of the inmates that would stay on their meds would stray off after they discharged because they wouldnt continue therapy after release.so i think even if it was made manditory for "all" of the inmates to participate in these programs, state tax payers would still take a loss in the overall positive turnout from the programs.you can make them take the programs but you cant make them gain anything from them. They have to want the education...for the right reasons.so my direct answer to your question, no i dont think that making the programs manditory would change the return rate


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