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Old 05-07-2012, 11:59 AM   #31
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Where I was, lovely Vietnam, all we heard was scuttlebutt for quite a while.
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Old 05-07-2012, 08:38 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Chainfire View Post
Ah, Sherman, the original American terrorist. He taught us how to make war on women and children. May he rot in Hell.
"Scholars taking issue with the notion that Sherman was employing "total war" include Noah Andre Trudeau. Trudeau believes that Sherman's goals and methods do not meet the definition of total war and to suggest as much is to "misread Sherman's intentions and to misunderstand the results of what happened."[9]

^ Trudeau, Noah Andre. "Southern Storm." Harper, 2008. p. 534

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_war

War on civilians goes back to very ancient times when marauding armies would sack cities and enslave their women and children after killing their warrior men.

During Medieval Times, under chivalry, civilian men, women, and children were spared harm, and soldiers only battled against other soldiers. So this period was a pause in the long history of total war.

Scorched earth was then reinstituted during the Napoleonic wars by the Russians, to stop the French advance. This is also what WT Sherman was doing in Georgia. Civilians may have later died due to starvation, but they were not gunned down.

Gunning down civilians did not occur until WW2 by Japan & Germany, then imitated by Britian and the USA as well under the guise of strategic warfare.

Kent State and the local National Guard there was more about a brawl between a dangerous mob and mismanaged and frightened guardsmen, although the order to "lock and load" was indeed given by a regular Army general at that time.

Whether someone shot at the guardsmen from the dorms first or not, we will never know. Unless someone from Kent State someday confesses it on their death bed.
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Old 05-07-2012, 09:27 PM   #33
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This is also what WT Sherman was doing in Georgia. Civilians may have later died due to starvation, but they were not gunned down.
Well, i guess starving is much better than getting "gunned down". I'm sure you will understand if many of us in the South (even those of us descended primarily from the Irish who arrived near the end of the war) still consider that person to be a worthless piece of **** and speak his name in the same breath as names like Osama Bin Laden and Obama and such and look forward to crotch kicking him in hell.
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Old 05-07-2012, 10:51 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by orangello

Well, i guess starving is much better than getting "gunned down". I'm sure you will understand if many of us in the South (even those of us descended primarily from the Irish who arrived near the end of the war) still consider that person to be a worthless piece of **** and speak his name in the same breath as names like Osama Bin Laden and Obama and such and look forward to crotch kicking him in hell.
Right on brother.^^^^^ Shoobie, if you liked what sherman did to the south, you should love what he did to the native americans.

Read he and sheridans own words.

http://www.plpow.com/Atrocities_QuotesFromSherman.htm
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:29 PM   #35
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This is also what WT Sherman was doing in Georgia. Civilians may have later died due to starvation, but they were not gunned down.
In what world is that better? You have to endure weeks, or even months of pain before you die from starvation. A bullet is almost instant.

As was said before, may Sherman burn in a hell that would give the devil himself nightmares.
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:46 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoobee View Post
"Scholars taking issue with the notion that Sherman was employing "total war" include Noah Andre Trudeau. Trudeau believes that Sherman's goals and methods do not meet the definition of total war and to suggest as much is to "misread Sherman's intentions and to misunderstand the results of what happened."[9]

^ Trudeau, Noah Andre. "Southern Storm." Harper, 2008. p. 534

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_war

War on civilians goes back to very ancient times when marauding armies would sack cities and enslave their women and children after killing their warrior men.

During Medieval Times, under chivalry, civilian men, women, and children were spared harm, and soldiers only battled against other soldiers. So this period was a pause in the long history of total war.

Scorched earth was then reinstituted during the Napoleonic wars by the Russians, to stop the French advance. This is also what WT Sherman was doing in Georgia. Civilians may have later died due to starvation, but they were not gunned down.

Gunning down civilians did not occur until WW2 by Japan & Germany, then imitated by Britian and the USA as well under the guise of strategic warfare.

Kent State and the local National Guard there was more about a brawl between a dangerous mob and mismanaged and frightened guardsmen, although the order to "lock and load" was indeed given by a regular Army general at that time.

Whether someone shot at the guardsmen from the dorms first or not, we will never know. Unless someone from Kent State someday confesses it on their death bed.
He wasn't involved in total war my ass. He burned a hundred mile swath through Georgia. What he couldn't use to feed his troops, he burned, or slaughtered. He was a F****** vandal. All of the men folk, except the old or the infirm were either serving or dead, so the only ones left to starve were the women and children, which they did.

When Lee made his way to Gettysburg, he forbade his soldiers to molest civilians or their homes or businesses, crops or animals. They weren't even allowed to take fence post for their camp fires. Anything that was taken as a necessity was paid for. (with currency that soon became worthless, but paid for just the same) This was rather hard for the troops to accept, because they had just come from an area of the South that had been vandalized. Sherman was a butcher, Grant was no better except that most of the troops he butchered were his own.

In some Southern families, the memory is still fresh. My Grandfather was born during the war. "Gone, but not forgotten."

Now we have a strong Federal government with impotent state governments who can only do what the Feds allow them to do. That is the lasting legacy of the war of Northern Agression. We all lost the Civil War.
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Old 05-07-2012, 11:56 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainfire

He wasn't involved in total war my ass. He burned a hundred mile swath through Georgia. What he couldn't use to feed his troops, he burned, or slaughtered. He was a F****** vandal. All of the men folk, except the old or the infirm were either serving or dead, so the only ones left to starve were the women and children, which they did.

When Lee made his way to Gettysburg, he forbade his soldiers to molest civilians or their homes or businesses, crops or animals. They weren't even allowed to take fence post for their camp fires. Anything that was taken as a necessity was paid for. (with currency that soon became worthless, but paid for just the same) This was rather hard for the troops to accept, because they had just come from an area of the South that had been vandalized. Sherman was a butcher, Grant was no better except that most of the troops he butchered were his own.

In some Southern families, the memory is still fresh. My Grandfather was born during the war. "Gone, but not forgotten."

Now we have a strong Federal government with impotent state governments who can only do what the Feds allow them to do. That is the lasting legacy of the war of Northern Agression. We all lost the Civil War.
I am not taking sides: that might have been one reason lee lost.
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:07 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainfire

He wasn't involved in total war my ass. He burned a hundred mile swath through Georgia. What he couldn't use to feed his troops, he burned, or slaughtered. He was a F****** vandal. All of the men folk, except the old or the infirm were either serving or dead, so the only ones left to starve were the women and children, which they did.

When Lee made his way to Gettysburg, he forbade his soldiers to molest civilians or their homes or businesses, crops or animals. They weren't even allowed to take fence post for their camp fires. Anything that was taken as a necessity was paid for. (with currency that soon became worthless, but paid for just the same) This was rather hard for the troops to accept, because they had just come from an area of the South that had been vandalized. Sherman was a butcher, Grant was no better except that most of the troops he butchered were his own.

In some Southern families, the memory is still fresh. My Grandfather was born during the war. "Gone, but not forgotten."

Now we have a strong Federal government with impotent state governments who can only do what the Feds allow them to do. That is the lasting legacy of the war of Northern Agression. We all lost the Civil War.
You go chainfire! There is spent brass knee deep around you after that post. Great gramps would give you two thumbs up but he lost an arm during the war. Not to a yankee bullet in battle, rather from abuse at camp douglas, northern pow camp.
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:37 AM   #39
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In what world is that better? You have to endure weeks, or even months of pain before you die from starvation. A bullet is almost instant.

As was said before, may Sherman burn in a hell that would give the devil himself nightmares.
War is hell.

Sherman said it.

And Sherman proved it.

After the North finally mobilized, and Grant took over, with his good friend Sherman, the South no longer stood a chance.

The South should have surrended earlier, after they lost Gettysburg.

They chose to hang on.

Sherman proved to them that was not a good idea.
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:49 AM   #40
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The Civil War was about Human Servitude the buying and selling of Humans. Read all of the arguments in congress before and during the war, it was about the right to own slaves. Sherman was seen as helping to end 300 years of owning humans for personal gain. Sherman was no worse during the Indian Wars than those of the 1812 era in the South. The Trail Of Tears was to take Indian lands in Alabama and other Southern states. This was a horrible treatment of humans. The Indians died of starvation and froze to death only to reach years of starvation and death in Oklahoma. The point here is no one has the right to cliam they suffered alone. Not everyone was a saint North or South.
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