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-   -   1986 FBI miami shootout (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f12/1986-fbi-miami-shootout-88658/)

chrishiggin29 04-12-2013 05:50 AM

1986 FBI miami shootout
 
This is the 1986 FBI Miami shootout recreation it's pretty interesting

http://www.examiner.com/video/1986-fbi-miami-gunfight-firefight-personal-reflection

dango 04-12-2013 02:03 PM

Indirectly , it was the birthing of the .40 caliber . Too many desk jockeys found the 10mm too much to handle . Interesting story though.!

Donn 04-12-2013 07:41 PM

Moral of the story? Go up against a rifle with a hand gun, any hand gun, and you're in for a very bad day.

locutus 04-12-2013 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donn (Post 1211761)
Moral of the story? Go up against a rifle with a hand gun, any hand gun, and you're in for a very bad day.


What amazes me most is that millions of dollars were spent over the next few years to cover up the incompetence and arrogance of the FBI.

Donn 04-13-2013 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by locutus (Post 1211862)
What amazes me most is that millions of dollars were spent over the next few years to cover up the incompetence and arrogance of the FBI.

+1. Arrogance for sure. Even in the interview, one of the survivors says they were sufficiently equipped that day. ???? The whole 10mm/40 S&W episode could've been avoided had the FBI re-equipped with the 45acp. However, that would've required the Agency to admit they were wrong for choosing the 9mm over the 45 in the first place. Would 45's have made any difference that day? We'll never know. But we do know how it turned out with what the agents had. Not even the 12ga 00buck shotties were enough.

AR10 04-13-2013 02:31 PM

Tagged for later

locutus 04-13-2013 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donn (Post 1212467)
+1. Arrogance for sure. Even in the interview, one of the survivors says they were sufficiently equipped that day. ???? The whole 10mm/40 S&W episode could've been avoided had the FBI re-equipped with the 45acp. However, that would've required the Agency to admit they were wrong for choosing the 9mm over the 45 in the first place. Would 45's have made any difference that day? We'll never know. But we do know how it turned out with what the agents had. Not even the 12ga 00buck shotties were enough.

The 9MM performed a helluva lot better then a .45 would have,

Their biggest bitch was penetration. If you look at the wound chennal of the bullet that stopped right next to the heart, it performed flawlessly. and it has a great deal of penetration.

But the FBI still needed to cover up improper supervision, improper doctrine, improper training, and lack of proper weaponry ON SCENE!

An M-16 or an MP-5 in the trunks of the cars and the fight would, in all likelihood, have turned out very differently.

Donn 04-14-2013 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by locutus (Post 1212892)
The 9MM performed a helluva lot better then a .45 would have,

Their biggest bitch was penetration. If you look at the wound chennal of the bullet that stopped right next to the heart, it performed flawlessly. and it has a great deal of penetration.

But the FBI still needed to cover up improper supervision, improper doctrine, improper training, and lack of proper weaponry ON SCENE!

An M-16 or an MP-5 in the trunks of the cars and the fight would, in all likelihood, have turned out very differently.

I've read that. Even if the perp had been on an operating table, he wouldn't have survived that first wound. Trouble is, while it was fatal, it wasn't incapacitating. To say the 9mm performed flawlessly is like saying the operation was a success but the patient died. And no, there's no evidence that any other handgun short of a 500 S&W would've had any affect on the outcome. That said, I totally agree had the agents been equipped with AR's or MP5's, the playing field would've been leveled. Going up against a rifle with a handgun only works on TV.


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