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Old 08-31-2012, 09:43 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by rjd3282
Funny how those of us outside the west coast have our rights and you don't but you think we are wrong and you are right. Good luck with that logic.
Reading through this thread...
And this post reflects my sentiment the most ^^^^^


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Old 08-31-2012, 10:03 AM   #32
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I'm all for people having their rights. I OC here in Louisiana. There's a huge OC movement in either Maryland or Massachusetts (can't remember which, I always get the two mixed up).

I don't see where it should be illegal to OC a long arm. But, just because it isn't wrong, doesn't mean it's right. These people (the ones I'm familiar with, the ones on YouTube) who OC AR's on the street, do so KNOWING they're going to get a negative reaction from the public and law enforcement, then they scream and cry about their rights being violated. In such a scenario, I would be almost willing to call this terrorism (look up the definition of the word before you bust out the flame thrower).

It's not much different than when a belligerent child teases their sibling, putting their finger inches from their sibling's face and saying "I'm not touching you, I'm not touching you". That's right, it's childish.

Now, I've expressed my sentiments before, and the flame throwers came out, and people were telling me, "but the public SHOULDN'T be alarmed, so that's THEIR problem!". Yes, that's true. But it's also true that they DO get alarmed. Remember my sibling analogy, the one sibling with the finger in his face technically SHOULDN'T be upset, because the obnoxious big brother isn't touching him, but... Does that really make it the little brother's problem? Or is big brother at fault too for instigating?

Besides. It's kind of like wearing a tux or wedding dress on a daily basis to go shopping or just run errands around town. Is there anything wrong with it? No. But is it convenient? No. Is it appropriate for the occasion? No. Some will argue that it should be because it's our right. Fine, whatever.

Like a fat man in a Speedo... Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD.

God I'm so glad my state is so gun friendly. I could probably open carry a ma deuce, and even the LEO's would likely assume I'm either another LEO, or I simply have my **** together. And the cops would likely stop me on the street... To ask if they can go to the range with me.



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Old 08-31-2012, 04:31 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by rjd3282 View Post
Funny how those of us outside the west coast have our rights and you don't but you think we are wrong and you are right. Good luck with that logic.
Not sure I understand what I said that implies that I think you are wrong anywhere, unless it was when I said that the open carry protesters were wrong in their methods of protest.

What they did directly resulted in the laws preventing us in CA from open carrying handguns and now long guns. That is an absolute fact and there is no getting around that. Having said that I am a rabid supporter of changing the laws and minds here in CA, but it is an uphill battle all the way. The OC protesters have dragged us backwards down the hill.

Just because it is legal doesn't make it smart. That has been said time and time again.



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The only reason why open carry long guns became illegal is because there simply wasn't enough protesters.
Perhaps so, but therein lies the problem. You think that more people with more guns walking down the street would have resulted in us keeping our right to OC? I think that it would have resulted in the outlawing of long gun OC last January when handgun OC was outlawed. Or perhaps the Governor would have declared martial law and rounded up all the protesters. Now perhaps that would have achieved our goals but it would have been really ugly and could just as easily gone completely the other way.

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Hows that any different then the gays throwin that crap in our face ? I dont wana see that ****! They have gay parades for christ sake. Wtf is that ? Yet if you bitch about the faries fluttering down the street your the bad person.
Josh, you make an analogy to the gay parades that makes no sense. If you do not want to participate or spectate at a gay parade you just don't go. Its that simple. Now, if there were a protest that was set up to, say, support gay marriage, then you would have a point. And if the protest included gays kissing each other (which is not illegal) then that would be analogous to an open carry protest where the protesters are legally carrying openly, but here in CA (at least a year ago) the guns would have to be unloaded....

People who come upon the protests and the media that report on it would be exposed to sights that they are offended by (either guns or gays kissing). Nothing wrong with that. You have no right not to be offended.

Now if the gays went so far as to be having sex in public at this gay marriage protest (which is specifically against the law for gays or straights), then that would be illegal and that would be dealt with through legal means.

If the OC protesters fired their guns at this OC protest, that would be illegal and dealt with accordingly.

Now, in both cases the intent of the protest is presumably to change things socially and/or legally. As far as gay marriage is concerned they have succeeded in getting Proposition 8 in 2008 which limits marriage to between a man and a woman (this is a loss for the pro-gay marriage side). This is still in the courts as you might be aware, but there are indications that it may be repealed (it will probably end up in the Supreme Court.) The fact is that they have not lost any of the tools that they can use to protest for their cause (kissing and hugging in public) and so they will continue to protest as usual, offending people along the way in order to spread their message.

But here in California the open carry protesters have succeeded in losing our rights to open carry in this state and there are no indications that we will gain that right back anytime soon. I see that as a huge loss. What can we do to visibly protest now? Carry signs with guns on them? Cardboard cutouts? Non-firing props? Perhaps so.
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Old 09-03-2012, 01:38 AM   #34
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I thought of another thing that we in CA have done as a way of protesting. When they pass these laws ways are found to improvise and adapt to the new laws in a way that circumvents the spirit of the law. Case in point, the "bullet button", and then the magnetic "tool" that we can "store" on the bullet button itself.
Or maybe Franklin Armory, located in Morgan Hill, CA- http://www.franklinarmory.com/LEGAL.html

Its playing "Whack-A-Mole" with the State Legislature.

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Old 09-05-2012, 02:11 AM   #35
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Vikingdad, you raised a good point. OC guys parading around sacramento with ARs Aks and four different handguns was uncalled for. I support OC of all guns. I think mountainman13 said it best, "Don't scare the sheep".

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Old 09-05-2012, 02:55 AM   #36
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Also what I meant by the not enough protestor thing, is that there is not enough pro gun and pro OC people in our state. After posting I realized if more people were pro OC and gun like I meant we wouldn't need to protest.

It is agreed that signs and petitions would have worked better.

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Old 09-05-2012, 02:58 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trip286
I'm all for people having their rights. I OC here in Louisiana. There's a huge OC movement in either Maryland or Massachusetts (can't remember which, I always get the two mixed up).

I don't see where it should be illegal to OC a long arm. But, just because it isn't wrong, doesn't mean it's right. These people (the ones I'm familiar with, the ones on YouTube) who OC AR's on the street, do so KNOWING they're going to get a negative reaction from the public and law enforcement, then they scream and cry about their rights being violated. In such a scenario, I would be almost willing to call this terrorism (look up the definition of the word before you bust out the flame thrower).

It's not much different than when a belligerent child teases their sibling, putting their finger inches from their sibling's face and saying "I'm not touching you, I'm not touching you". That's right, it's childish.

Now, I've expressed my sentiments before, and the flame throwers came out, and people were telling me, "but the public SHOULDN'T be alarmed, so that's THEIR problem!". Yes, that's true. But it's also true that they DO get alarmed. Remember my sibling analogy, the one sibling with the finger in his face technically SHOULDN'T be upset, because the obnoxious big brother isn't touching him, but... Does that really make it the little brother's problem? Or is big brother at fault too for instigating?

Besides. It's kind of like wearing a tux or wedding dress on a daily basis to go shopping or just run errands around town. Is there anything wrong with it? No. But is it convenient? No. Is it appropriate for the occasion? No. Some will argue that it should be because it's our right. Fine, whatever.

Like a fat man in a Speedo... Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD.

God I'm so glad my state is so gun friendly. I could probably open carry a ma deuce, and even the LEO's would likely assume I'm either another LEO, or I simply have my **** together. And the cops would likely stop me on the street... To ask if they can go to the range with me.
You pretty much nailed it.
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:46 AM   #38
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Vikingdad, you raised a good point. OC guys parading around sacramento with ARs Aks and four different handguns was uncalled for. I support OC of all guns. I think mountainman13 said it best, "Don't scare the sheep".
And sheep outnumber us by a fair margin. Notice I did not say "wolves", because a good gun owner is not a vicious predator. That is the image that the anti-gunners have of us though and it is our job to change that image as best we can. OCing in Sacramento is not going to do that.

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Also what I meant by the not enough protestor thing, is that there is not enough pro gun and pro OC people in our state. After posting I realized if more people were pro OC and gun like I meant we wouldn't need to protest.
True, we need more responsible gun owners here in order to bring forth change. That is what infuriates me the most when other gun owners (here on this forum and elsewhere) tell me to move out of CA because of the oppressive gun restrictions. That would be quitting the fight and abandoning every other CA gun owner. Why don't they move here and help us turn the tides? That would be the better solution.

Quote:
It is agreed that signs and petitions would have worked better.
Allow me to qualify that statement with this addition: HERE IN CALIFORNIA!!!


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