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Old 05-27-2013, 06:35 PM   #71
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Trip...

The differences between Bush and Lincoln must be taken in contex and viewed through the lense of there adversaries abilities and intent.

We agree that Afghanistan was just and we agree that the moment UBL was killed we should have left.

Sadam had been flaunting the terms of his GF1 surrender for roughly 12 years, had used WMD's on his own people, and per his own words would have lived to kill Americans... Even attempted to kill Bush SR.

Had I been in GWB's seat following 911... I too would have been very concerned with Sadam's ability and willingness to give chem weapons to extremist interested in smuggling them into the US or Isreal for use against both of our populations.

We must also consider total US death toll as a result of both Presidents actions. Not that death toll increases or decreases initial justification but... Had either of Bush's wars caused even 1/10th the American Casulties seen in the Civil War... Bush's Presidency would not have seen a second term... and Bush never violated the BOR against vocal opponents at home as Lincoln did.

...but I will admit that the creation of DHS and the NDAA may well proove to be far more damaging to the BOR in the long run.

Tack


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Bush said, once upon a tine, "Iraqi oil will pay for this war."

Lincoln was a bastard. But he was a bastard that was (in part) trying to keep his agricultural base intact.

What need had we to go into another country on the other side of the world, if not ultimately for greed?

I'm a bit of an isolationist. I couldn't give a **** less what some tin pot dictator does to his own people over there. I want to know (and I want the "right people" here to know), so that we can watch, learn, and prevent, but I honestly don't see the need to spend so many American lives telling other people how to live when we have problems at home.

To consider Bush and his wars to be a lesser evil than Lincoln's war, I don't understand. I don't understand this concept at all.

We were just, and right, in attacking the Taliban and Al Queda in Afghanistan. But, as was already mentioned, the fact that we're still there, I think, is utter bull ****. We were right and just in invading Pakistan to kill Osama. And what happened? Mission completed, GTFO. That's exactly what needs to happen now.

I just really fail to see how Lincoln's war was more unjust than Bush's war.
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Old 05-27-2013, 07:51 PM   #72
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Trip...

The differences between Bush and Lincoln must be taken in contex and viewed through the lense of there adversaries abilities and intent.

We agree that Afghanistan was just and we agree that the moment UBL was killed we should have left.

Sadam had been flaunting the terms of his GF1 surrender for roughly 12 years, had used WMD's on his own people, and per his own words would have lived to kill Americans... Even attempted to kill Bush SR.

Had I been in GWB's seat following 911... I too would have been very concerned with Sadam's ability and willingness to give chem weapons to extremist interested in smuggling them into the US or Isreal for use against both of our populations.

We must also consider total US death toll as a result of both Presidents actions. Not that death toll increases or decreases initial justification but... Had either of Bush's wars caused even 1/10th the American Casulties seen in the Civil War... Bush's Presidency would not have seen a second term... and Bush never violated the BOR against vocal opponents at home as Lincoln did.

...but I will admit that the creation of DHS and the NDAA may well proove to be far more damaging to the BOR in the long run.

Tack
I can always count on you to say things in a way that make so much better sense to me. Thank ya. Ever thought of teaching special ed?
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Old 05-27-2013, 08:01 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trip286 View Post
Bush said, once upon a tine, "Iraqi oil will pay for this war."

Lincoln was a bastard. But he was a bastard that was (in part) trying to keep his agricultural base intact.

What need had we to go into another country on the other side of the world, if not ultimately for greed?

I'm a bit of an isolationist. I couldn't give a **** less what some tin pot dictator does to his own people over there. I want to know (and I want the "right people" here to know), so that we can watch, learn, and prevent, but I honestly don't see the need to spend so many American lives telling other people how to live when we have problems at home.

To consider Bush and his wars to be a lesser evil than Lincoln's war, I don't understand. I don't understand this concept at all.

We were just, and right, in attacking the Taliban and Al Queda in Afghanistan. But, as was already mentioned, the fact that we're still there, I think, is utter bull ****. We were right and just in invading Pakistan to kill Osama. And what happened? Mission completed, GTFO. That's exactly what needs to happen now.

I just really fail to see how Lincoln's war was more unjust than Bush's war.
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Trip...

The differences between Bush and Lincoln must be taken in contex and viewed through the lense of there adversaries abilities and intent.

We agree that Afghanistan was just and we agree that the moment UBL was killed we should have left.

Sadam had been flaunting the terms of his GF1 surrender for roughly 12 years, had used WMD's on his own people, and per his own words would have lived to kill Americans... Even attempted to kill Bush SR.

Had I been in GWB's seat following 911... I too would have been very concerned with Sadam's ability and willingness to give chem weapons to extremist interested in smuggling them into the US or Isreal for use against both of our populations.

We must also consider total US death toll as a result of both Presidents actions. Not that death toll increases or decreases initial justification but... Had either of Bush's wars caused even 1/10th the American Casulties seen in the Civil War... Bush's Presidency would not have seen a second term... and Bush never violated the BOR against vocal opponents at home as Lincoln did.

...but I will admit that the creation of DHS and the NDAA may well proove to be far more damaging to the BOR in the long run.

Tack
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I can always count on you to say things in a way that make so much better sense to me. Thank ya. Ever thought of teaching special ed?
Basically what I was getting at, was what tack was getting at.

Bush is no saint. That's for sure, but he's also not on the same level that Lincoln was.

Unlike Bush, Lincoln waged his war only on America, trampled everyone's rights, and made sure that anyone who spoke out against him was silenced. He is the very definition of a Tyrant.
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Old 05-27-2013, 08:19 PM   #74
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So, we should get rid of the Lincoln Memorial, take him off of Mt. Rushmore, insist Americans stop thinking of him as one of the top three Presidents of all time and the rest of the world from reading about him too (he is the most written about man in history) and, finally, we shouldn't name a new line of doublewides after him?

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Old 05-27-2013, 08:20 PM   #75
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When Syria falls I think you'll be surprised by Saddam's WMD unless this Administration covers it up when they give the country to The Muslim Brotherhood.

We know they existed -- we inventoried them in GW1. And they were supposed to be being proved destroyed but weren't. That's one of the reasons we went back.

Personally I'm just concerned for Asma Assad. She has an open invitation to stay with me for a while when she has to flee Damascus!

There are a lot of people that believe that Syria did take delivery of the Iraqi bad stuff. If this is the case I hope it comes to light. But I honestly don't believe it will if true.
It seems I remember some news with pics of trucks hightailing it into Syria just before Iraq got he shock and awe kicked out of them. But for the life of me I cvan't remember who reported it.
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Old 05-27-2013, 08:25 PM   #76
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I can always count on you to say things in a way that make so much better sense to me. Thank ya. Ever thought of teaching special ed?
No... But I did volunteer 1 class period a day to pitch in and help the special Ed kids back when I was a youngster. Equally uplifting and heartbreaking at the same time.

They are truly Gods chosen ones, touched with an innonece we could all learn from.

...and I would love to go into teaching US and World History after retiring from my current career but I doubt I'd fit the mold of "public school educator". Hopefully vouchers and private schools will be on the rise over the next 20 years.

Tack
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Old 05-27-2013, 08:29 PM   #77
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There are a lot of people that believe that Syria did take delivery of the Iraqi bad stuff. If this is the case I hope it comes to light. But I honestly don't believe it will if true.
It seems I remember some news with pics of trucks hightailing it into Syria just before Iraq got he shock and awe kicked out of them. But for the life of me I cvan't remember who reported it.
You are correct DJ... I saw the same reports and do not doubt that Sadam shipped his crap to Asad for safekeeping.

Tack
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Old 05-27-2013, 09:26 PM   #78
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"Whether we bring our enemies to justice or bring justice to our enemies, justice will be done."
George W. Bush

I'm more interetested in Asma having a place to crash for a while once her chinless husband is "deposed."

asma.jpg  
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Old 05-27-2013, 09:46 PM   #79
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So, we should get rid of the Lincoln Memorial, take him off of Mt. Rushmore, insist Americans stop thinking of him as one of the top three Presidents of all time and the rest of the world from reading about him too (he is the most written about man in history) and, finally, we shouldn't name a new line of doublewides after him?
Actually, yes. He is not deserving of those things, because he was nothing more than a tyrant who traded blood for money.
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Old 05-27-2013, 09:48 PM   #80
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OK, so, the Lost Cause lesson for today is:
  • Lincoln: evil incarnate
  • Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait, The Taliban, Al Queda: what-ever!

Say fellas, isn't NASCAR on the television box!?
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So, we should get rid of the Lincoln Memorial, take him off of Mt. Rushmore, insist Americans stop thinking of him as one of the top three Presidents of all time and the rest of the world from reading about him too (he is the most written about man in history) and, finally, we shouldn't name a new line of doublewides after him?
Lets see. NASCAR, and now doublewides. I have a feeling your putting stuff like that in your posts as a way of taking a cheap shot at the South. If that's the case, grow the hell up.
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