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Old 07-13-2014, 01:20 AM   #111
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Ok, WW2 experts here is a question. What would have happened if Ike let Patton speed to Berlin, take it, and then tee off on the Russians? Could we have forced them back, and into a defensive posture, and more secondary rile in the 20th century? And would it have made the rest of the century better or worse? Patton certainly hated the Communists, and as crazy/forceful as he was he would have given it his all.


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In the spring of 1945 the chances of selling a continuation war to Congress and to the American people were nil. Japan was still kicking, and the A bomb was months away, untested.
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Old 07-13-2014, 02:46 AM   #112
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Ok, WW2 experts here is a question. What would have happened if Ike let Patton speed to Berlin, take it, and then tee off on the Russians? Could we have forced them back, and into a defensive posture, and more secondary rile in the 20th century? And would it have made the rest of the century better or worse? Patton certainly hated the Communists, and as crazy/forceful as he was he would have given it his all.
Who knows? It could have had any result from starting a hot war with

Russia, to eliminating the cold war. Or possibly eliminating the Berlin Wall.

IMHO, keeping Patton out of Berlin, at the time, was probably a wise act

of discretion, on behalf of senior command.
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Old 07-13-2014, 02:48 AM   #113
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Default Biggest Strategic Mistakes of World War II

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Generals are not supposed to express any opinions at all without advance clearance.



Not sure if this policy predates Truman or not. But it is now taught in all officer schools.



Opinions are for politicians.



Generals are warriors not politicians.

That Happens to be true. But it still doesn't Stop O-6's and above from making bone head comments(see McChrystal) or Incurring Heavy losses WE COULD have avoided with better intel then 30 Year old Maps Going into Urgent Fury(Grenada) where myself and 10,000 Other US Troops, the Marine's 24Th MEU & 22nd MEU,.,.,The Navy Personnel,..including 6 Seals who jumped into the Water and Lost their boats and drowned, their bodies never to be found,...
The Mistakes In Lebanon(where We were until we were pulled out a week before the Barracks Bombing to Prepare for Grenada...)
Letting Mr. Drug Kingpin Noriega and his collection of Red Silk Panties He wore, run rampant over American Personnel, Dropping Rockets On JSB Howard and It's op center, Killing 3 and injuring 27, Including a certain Warrant Officer who was an Air Ops/Airspace Manager-Officer,..(Guess Who...) We should have burned him and His Panties at the Stake.....

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Old 07-13-2014, 02:58 AM   #114
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Someone close to me says: who cares we can't change what really happened...
I say we alies got lucky and we had god on our side

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Old 07-13-2014, 03:03 AM   #115
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Someone close to me says: who cares we can't change what really happened...
I say we alies got lucky and we had god on our side
A famous quote goes, " Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it " . And that doesn't mean you have to take the course over again next year !

'What iffing' is one way to learn from history .
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Old 07-13-2014, 11:43 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by CardiacColt68 View Post
Ok, WW2 experts here is a question. What would have happened if Ike let Patton speed to Berlin, take it, and then tee off on the Russians? Could we have forced them back, and into a defensive posture, and more secondary rile in the 20th century? And would it have made the rest of the century better or worse? Patton certainly hated the Communists, and as crazy/forceful as he was he would have given it his all.


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What makes you think that we could have forced the Soviets into a "defensive" position? If we had made war on them, it would have been a fight to the death.

A few reasons to ignore Patton's wishes: They were our allies, we were in no position to take on Soviet army, we were tired of the war, we weren't willing to spend a million lives to conquer land that we didn't intend to occupy and exploit. We also wanted Soviet troops to help us in the invasion of the Japanese homeland. Hitler was dead, the Nazis were kaput and we had accomplished our goals. Why start a new war?

Patton did not have the tools to take on the Soviets. Battling them would have been a blood-fest. If he had tried we may well have been beaten and the results would have been that all of Europe would have been, and might still be under Communist domination, and we would have eventually had to fight them on our shores. Remember that at the time of VE day, we did not have the atomic bomb, we were not sure that it would work, and we were not sure of it's capabilities. (It was still theory)

It worked out fine anyway. Fifty years later, the Communist government collapsed under it's own weight and we were and are still doing well. Patton was wrong.
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Old 07-13-2014, 01:41 PM   #117
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I never said we could have forced them into a defensive position, I simply asked the question if it were possible. Just wondering what people thought could have or would have happened especially if we kept the Soviets out of Berlin. The Cold War would have certainly been different.


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Old 07-14-2014, 02:10 PM   #118
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The American people were tired of war. It's really that simple.

If the bomb had not worked, many American civilians would have supported an armistice with Japan just to get it over with.

Americans have very little patience.

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Old 07-14-2014, 02:57 PM   #119
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Default Say what...............

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Someone close to me says: who cares we can't change what really happened...
I say we alies got lucky and we had god on our side
Your god buried the dead that won the war..............The germans also prayed to god............As a medic, my father said that the wounded and dying were most apt to cry for thier Mothers............We gave the russians germany because we didn't want any more Americans killed in the battle for berlin.............Japan paid the price, so did the germans................One bullet is all it takes to stop the insanity.................
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