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Old 07-15-2012, 12:34 PM   #21
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I went to Dachau when I was stationed in Germany. They recreated the camp. The original had to be torched due to disease & infestation. The phrase "Never Again" is prominently displayed there as well.

Yet, Europe did nothing during the Bosnian War or Rwanda. I would hate to have my life dependent on the United Nations. It's primary purpose seems to be giving diplomats free parking & freedom from parking tickets in New York.
I too visited Dachau and it was a very lonely and sad feeling over the camp. In fact, there wasn't so much as a bird chirping the entire time we were there.

Bosnia was a mess - we were sent right after the Dayton Peace accord was signed. We provided protection for the mass graves investigative team while they conducted their searches for the mass grave sites, along with several other missions during the course of a year (1995-1996).

We also provided protection for the UNHCR that moved an entire village out of their homes because of a border dispute with Serbia. I'll never forget the old men and women having to leave all of their belongings (which wasn't much at that point) to move to a refuge camp while it was sorted out. There was an old woman that walked to the top of the hill where we were positioned who was met my a Serbian police man (MUP) who started screaming at her that he would kill her, if she ever walked up there again. That was the day I witnessed "Hate" first hand.
A couple of days later, early in the morning five homes were destroyed by the Serbians using anti-tank mines rigged with det cord set off all at the same time.

Sorry to have kind of hijacked the OP.
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Old 07-15-2012, 01:23 PM   #22
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I too visited Dachau and it was a very lonely and sad feeling over the camp. In fact, there wasn't so much as a bird chirping the entire time we were there.

Bosnia was a mess - we were sent right after the Dayton Peace accord was signed. We provided protection for the mass graves investigative team while they conducted their searches for the mass grave sites, along with several other missions during the course of a year (1995-1996).

We also provided protection for the UNHCR that moved an entire village out of their homes because of a border dispute with Serbia. I'll never forget the old men and women having to leave all of their belongings (which wasn't much at that point) to move to a refuge camp while it was sorted out. There was an old woman that walked to the top of the hill where we were positioned who was met my a Serbian police man (MUP) who started screaming at her that he would kill her, if she ever walked up there again. That was the day I witnessed "Hate" first hand.
A couple of days later, early in the morning five homes were destroyed by the Serbians using anti-tank mines rigged with det cord set off all at the same time.

Sorry to have kind of hijacked the OP.
Oh you're fine! I was just posting from the biggest historically/emotional part of my vacation. Feel free to share any stories
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Old 07-15-2012, 01:34 PM   #23
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Can believe, along with every other man in the unit......I just love to watch the films of the German citizens having to go thru the camps and seeing what they have done and to remove and bury the dead.......We should have removed the German race from the face of the earth......Along with the Japs........How many did Stalin kill and blame on the germans..........10 million ???????????
As you can see, some people still don't get it. This is exactly why the holocost, in one form or another, will never really end.
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Old 07-15-2012, 08:12 PM   #24
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The Dachau museum was very impressive. They had turned a large wall into a map and they posted the location of every concentration camp. I remember being surprised by it, there was over 300 of them.

The Germans kept meticulous records and some of these survived and are on display. Once seen, however, they are hard, if not impossible, to forget. I bought the book at the museum - its probably available on line.

Sdiver35: Thank you for your service. Unfortunately, hate knows no geographical boundaries. Once seen, it is also difficult to forget.

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Old 07-15-2012, 09:50 PM   #25
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For me, what is most interesting are those people who hide and/or rescued Jews. What is it that gave some people the gumption to go against the grain when the social mores had been manipulated so that most people in Germany thought of Jews as barely above livestock. How or what is the common denominator among people who risked their lives and said ‘No!’ when everyone around you believes ‘X’ (Jews are bad, Blacks should be slaves, etc.). The staff at the holocaust museum in DC told me there is no common denominator. People have checked.

I’m speaking more of those who didn’t really know the people they saved. Who weren’t the friends and neighbors of those they rescued.

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Old 07-15-2012, 11:01 PM   #26
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Vincine- you might hunt up the term "Righteous gentile" or "Righteous among Nations". In Hebrew- חסידי עומות עולם This is a formal recognition of non-Jewish persons that risked their lives to save Jews. In addition to a medal and certificate, their name is added to a plaque at the Jerusalem Holocaust Museum- there is a field of trees planted there in their honor.

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Old 07-16-2012, 12:10 AM   #27
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Vincine- you might hunt up the term "Righteous gentile" or "Righteous among Nations". . . . . .In addition to a medal and certificate, their name is added to a plaque at the Jerusalem Holocaust Museum- there is a field of trees planted there in their honor.
This what I found on the ‘The Righteous Among The Nations’ website.
[http://www1.yadvashem.org/yv/en/righteous/about.asp]

“Most rescuers were ordinary people. . . . . . . . . .”

“Scholars have attempted to trace the characteristics that these Righteous share and to identify who was more likely to extend help to the Jews or to a persecuted person. . . . . . . . . .”

“By comparing and contrasting rescuers and bystanders during the Holocaust, they pointed out that those who intervened were distinguished by characteristics such as empathy and a sense of connection to others.

Nehama Tec who also studied many cases of Righteous, found a cluster of shared characteristics and conditions of separateness, individuality or marginality. . . . . . . . .”


So; “. . . a sense of connection to others.” AND/OR “. . . characteristics and conditions of separateness, individuality or marginality." In other words, the Righteous were loners who felt connected to others. (WTF?) It's a Barnum premise if I ever heard one.

Sure would like to find the distinguishing characteristic of those with moral courage in the face of serious consequences. It does get shaky out there when you’re all alone the first few times.
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Old 07-16-2012, 02:26 AM   #28
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Sure would like to find the distinguishing characteristic of those with moral courage in the face of serious consequences.
You and me both. In combat, I know of no way until the person in question has "seen the elephant". Have seen 6'4" football linebackers assume the fetal position, and seen 125 lb youngsters become Conan the Barbarian- when they get shot at.
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Old 07-16-2012, 02:29 AM   #29
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For me,being Jewish,I was raised going to synagogues and such and I've met people with the tattoos on their wrists.
I've heard them speak.

Your comments choke me up,especially the one about the medic from WW2.

This did happen- and it happened to more then just we Jews.

And democide -the act of government murdering its own citizens- has a history in that era that encompasses many nations,Turkey,Russia -not just Germany,and its been going on for too long.

On this forum,some people here might think I'm a little off the wall.

With my posts,some might think I go too far.

But the evidence,to me,is clear.

Is not just socialism,or Marxism,or Nazism,or empiricism,or whatever "-ism" that causes these things to happen.

Its government with too much power.

Oh,it always starts off as being for "the good of society" and for "the good of the future" or whatever.

But look where it ends.

Look where it ends.

Our Founders were brilliant because they knew how dangerous big government was.

The last century PROVED their beliefs WITHOUT ANY QUESTION OF A DOUBT.

We should learn from history,lest we become doomed to repeat it..........

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Old 07-16-2012, 03:18 AM   #30
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There is a Holocaust Museum in Skokie, Illinois, a predominantly Jewish suburb of Chicago. It's only about a 45 minute drive from me but I have not gone to see it yet. I don't know if I'm strong enough to get through it.

http://www.ilholocaustmuseum.org/

I remember years ago on occasion when I'd draw blood from patients, every once in a while someone would present an arm that had a Holocaust tattoo on it. It seems like it was always the left forearm. It broke my heart to see that and the patient was usually embarrassed to present that arm. I couldn't help but wonder what that person had been through during his/her life......what they had seen and experienced......where their family members were, etc. It was quite upsetting for me. I haven't seen it in quite a while, though, as that generation ages. That and the fact that I've moved away from a more populated area where I was more likely to see that. I'm now in a small farming community.

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