.45 rimfire?
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Old 02-07-2014, 04:58 AM   #1
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Default .45 rimfire?

I've got one for the brain trust....

I have come into possession of a mixed container of vintage cartridges. One of the loose rounds looks like a .45-70 cartridge, but upon closer examination I found that it has a rimfire primer. The cartridge case is 2.1 inches long... Again like a .45-70. The cartridge is intact with a round nose lead bullet which measures at .453 at the edge of the casing. Overall length is 2.58 in., and there is a bilateral swag on the cartridge .15 in. From the rim. I can't find any info on it... Any ideas?imageuploadedbyfirearms-talk1391752462.491655.jpgimageuploadedbyfirearms-talk1391752574.517495.jpg


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Old 02-07-2014, 05:45 AM   #2
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That is a .46 Extra Long rim fire. It was chambered in a number of rifles until WWI. It is a U.S. cartridge from the late 19th and early 20th century.

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Old 02-07-2014, 12:22 PM   #3
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Looks to be a standard 45-70.
It is NOT a rimfire!
It is a inside primed center fire.
The crimp marks above the rim are a dead give away.

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Old 02-07-2014, 12:35 PM   #4
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Yep. The crimp above the rim indicates Benet primed. Very old 45-70 that predates the current outside primer. Take a look here: http://cartridgecollectors.org/?page=glossary and scroll down to Benet.

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Old 02-07-2014, 01:50 PM   #5
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Humm? Very old 45-70? Not likely. The .45 Government AKA .45-70 has a nominal bullet diameter of .457-.458. The OP stated this round had a .453-.456" diamater. This and the OAL are more consistent with the .46 Extra Long Rimfire. The .46 Rimfire was very popular and was made in .46 Rimfire short, Long and extra Long. The .46 Short Rimfire was chambered in handguns. Around 1869 this cartridge was popular for converting percussion cap firearms to cartridge use. The .46 Short was morphed into the .45 Schofield..

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Old 02-19-2014, 10:28 PM   #6
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It ain't a rimfire. As stated it's a Benet primed .45-70.

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Old 02-20-2014, 05:24 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitestalker View Post
Humm? Very old 45-70? Not likely. The .45 Government AKA .45-70 has a nominal bullet diameter of .457-.458. The OP stated this round had a .453-.456" diamater. This and the OAL are more consistent with the .46 Extra Long Rimfire. The .46 Rimfire was very popular and was made in .46 Rimfire short, Long and extra Long. The .46 Short Rimfire was chambered in handguns. Around 1869 this cartridge was popular for converting percussion cap firearms to cartridge use. The .46 Short was morphed into the .45 Schofield..
It's not a rimfire. Look at the link C3 posted.

Quote:
BENET-PRIMED - A common style of inside-primed car-tridge developed by Col. S.V Benet commander of Frankford Arsenal in the late 1860s. It was used extensively in early U.S. military ammunition. A copper or iron cup was secured inside the head of the case by characteristic crimps. This cup served as an anvil to enable the firing pin to activate the priming mixture and also to reinforce the head of the case.


Benet primed 45-70

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Old 02-20-2014, 05:30 AM   #8
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The bullet is too small. Humm? not a rimfire? It is a .46 caliber. My world does not depend on quotes from Wikipedia.

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Old 02-20-2014, 06:27 AM   #9
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The bullet is too small. Humm? not a rimfire? It is a .46 caliber. My world does not depend on quotes from Wikipedia.
1) That link was NOT for Wikipedia. It was a dedicated cartridge collecting site.

2) It's already been proven that it's NOT a rimfire. It's a Benet primed center fire cartridge.

3) Quit being stubborn. It's not a rimfire of any kind.
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Old 02-20-2014, 05:25 PM   #10
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There were at least two US made inside primers, the Benet and the Morse.

The US Army .45-70 rounds were inside primed until 1882 when they were superceded by a Berdan primed round.

http://www.oldammo.com/november04.htm

http://www.soldusa.com/rainworx/detail.asp?id=52759

http://www.gunauction.com/buy/10723205/collectible-ammo-for-sale/single-cartridges/45-70-govt-inside-primed-from-april-1881-cart-z448

http://www.cartridgecollectors.org/?page=glossary

In about 1960 i came by hundreds of Benet primed .45-70 rounds when my EOD unit cleaned out the explosive ordnance from the estate of a deceased collector. At that time about 50 percent of the rounds fired. By 2000 none would fire.

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